Freon, or the new stuff?

[Stormin Mormon]

Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

[ftwhd]

On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 19:54:34 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

How the fuck you have any customers baffles me. There must be some
super dumb and/or desperate people in NY. No, the "new stuff" sucks
and its doesn't work very well. Stick with R 22 forever you ignorant
screwball.

The King is dead but not forgotten.

[Steve]

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

Doesn't make any difference if its installed correctly, and charged
correctly. The biggest difference is the new 15SEER R410a systems that I
install use almost literally half the energy to run than the old 10SEER
systems that I have been replacing.

[PaxPerPoten]

Post by Steve

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

Doesn't make any difference if its installed correctly, and charged
correctly. The biggest difference is the new 15SEER R410a systems that I
install use almost literally half the energy to run than the old 10SEER
systems that I have been replacing.

Could much of that energy saving be attributed to double sized
Evaporators and much larger condenser coils? ;-p Given the fact that 10
SEER is less then 14 SEER. If in the middle of the transition of the old
cooling gases to the new cooling gases it had been found there was
nothing wrong with the old ///Do you really think we would be using the
new stuff? Maybe for the massive profit the manufacturers make..But I
wonder at our end..How far this foolishness will really go before
someone dumps Al Gores body in a lake of real toxic waste?

[Steve]

Post by Steve

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

Doesn't make any difference if its installed correctly, and charged
correctly. The biggest difference is the new 15SEER R410a systems that I
install use almost literally half the energy to run than the old 10SEER
systems that I have been replacing.

Could much of that energy saving be attributed to double sized Evaporators
and much larger condenser coils? ;-p

And the compressors are smaller, the refrigerant charge is much less than
R22... somewhere around 1/2 as much. The liberal use of ECM motors plays a
part in it also, as do all of the built in safeties and controls.

4 ton heat pump.... 10SEER R22 scroll compressor measured amp draw is 18 -
22 amps... same system in R410a with a scroll compressor, measured amp draw
is only around 12 - 13 amps....

Given the fact that 10 SEER is less then 14 SEER. If in the middle of the
transition of the old cooling gases to the new cooling gases it had been
found there was nothing wrong with the old ///Do you really think we would
be using the new stuff?

Much higher efficiencies with the new stuff, the new stuff is *very* quiet,
10 year parts warranty, 10 year compressor warranty, and 5 year unit
replacement warranty

Maybe for the massive profit the manufacturers make..But I wonder at our
end..

I dunno.... my profit margins are up significantly, and my customers with
the new systems utility bills are 30 - 50+% less than what they were before
I installed the new system(s).

How far this foolishness will really go before someone dumps Al Gores body
in a lake of real toxic waste?

explain to me again where the down side is??

[PaxPerPoten]

Post by Steve

Post by Steve

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

Doesn't make any difference if its installed correctly, and charged
correctly. The biggest difference is the new 15SEER R410a systems that I
install use almost literally half the energy to run than the old 10SEER
systems that I have been replacing.

Could much of that energy saving be attributed to double sized Evaporators
and much larger condenser coils? ;-p

And the compressors are smaller, the refrigerant charge is much less than
R22... somewhere around 1/2 as much. The liberal use of ECM motors plays a
part in it also, as do all of the built in safeties and controls.
4 ton heat pump.... 10SEER R22 scroll compressor measured amp draw is 18 -
22 amps... same system in R410a with a scroll compressor, measured amp draw
is only around 12 - 13 amps....

Given the fact that 10 SEER is less then 14 SEER. If in the middle of the
transition of the old cooling gases to the new cooling gases it had been
found there was nothing wrong with the old ///Do you really think we would
be using the new stuff?

Much higher efficiencies with the new stuff, the new stuff is *very* quiet,
10 year parts warranty, 10 year compressor warranty, and 5 year unit
replacement warranty

Maybe for the massive profit the manufacturers make..But I wonder at our
end..

I dunno.... my profit margins are up significantly, and my customers with
the new systems utility bills are 30 - 50+% less than what they were before
I installed the new system(s).

How far this foolishness will really go before someone dumps Al Gores body
in a lake of real toxic waste?

explain to me again where the down side is??

Sorry Steve, But I just am not impressed with over priced equipment that
serves less of a lifetime. The whole cooling gas Ponzi scheme is a sick
joke. Of course it gave a shot in the arm to the Industry. Folks bitch
about bank bail outs..What the Hell do you think Government rebates in
our Industry are? I am disgusted that I have no choice but to go along
with this travesty. I love new technologies..But this is an out and out
expensive scam.

[Steve]

Post by PaxPerPoten

Post by Steve

Post by Steve

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

Doesn't make any difference if its installed correctly, and charged
correctly. The biggest difference is the new 15SEER R410a systems that I
install use almost literally half the energy to run than the old 10SEER
systems that I have been replacing.

Could much of that energy saving be attributed to double sized Evaporators
and much larger condenser coils? ;-p

And the compressors are smaller, the refrigerant charge is much less than
R22... somewhere around 1/2 as much. The liberal use of ECM motors plays a
part in it also, as do all of the built in safeties and controls.
4 ton heat pump.... 10SEER R22 scroll compressor measured amp draw is
18 -
22 amps... same system in R410a with a scroll compressor, measured amp draw
is only around 12 - 13 amps....

Given the fact that 10 SEER is less then 14 SEER. If in the middle of the
transition of the old cooling gases to the new cooling gases it had been
found there was nothing wrong with the old ///Do you really think we would
be using the new stuff?

Much higher efficiencies with the new stuff, the new stuff is *very* quiet,
10 year parts warranty, 10 year compressor warranty, and 5 year unit
replacement warranty

Maybe for the massive profit the manufacturers make..But I wonder at our
end..

I dunno.... my profit margins are up significantly, and my customers with
the new systems utility bills are 30 - 50+% less than what they were before
I installed the new system(s).

How far this foolishness will really go before someone dumps Al Gores body
in a lake of real toxic waste?

explain to me again where the down side is??

Sorry Steve, But I just am not impressed with over priced equipment that
serves less of a lifetime. The whole cooling gas Ponzi scheme is a sick
joke. Of course it gave a shot in the arm to the Industry. Folks bitch
about bank bail outs..What the Hell do you think Government rebates in our
Industry are? I am disgusted that I have no choice but to go along with
this travesty. I love new technologies..But this is an out and out
expensive scam.

yeah, and you bitched and moaned when they switches to unleaded gasoline,
and put computers in cars so you couldn't work on it yourself anymore too.
Nothing is built to last anymore.
There isn't anything you can *DO* about it... kwitcherbitchin and deal with
it.

[PaxPerPoten]

Post by Steve

Post by PaxPerPoten

Post by Steve

Post by Steve

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

Doesn't make any difference if its installed correctly, and charged
correctly. The biggest difference is the new 15SEER R410a systems that I
install use almost literally half the energy to run than the old 10SEER
systems that I have been replacing.

Could much of that energy saving be attributed to double sized Evaporators
and much larger condenser coils? ;-p

And the compressors are smaller, the refrigerant charge is much less than
R22... somewhere around 1/2 as much. The liberal use of ECM motors plays a
part in it also, as do all of the built in safeties and controls.
4 ton heat pump.... 10SEER R22 scroll compressor measured amp draw is
18 -
22 amps... same system in R410a with a scroll compressor, measured amp draw
is only around 12 - 13 amps....

Given the fact that 10 SEER is less then 14 SEER. If in the middle of the
transition of the old cooling gases to the new cooling gases it had been
found there was nothing wrong with the old ///Do you really think we would
be using the new stuff?

Much higher efficiencies with the new stuff, the new stuff is *very* quiet,
10 year parts warranty, 10 year compressor warranty, and 5 year unit
replacement warranty

Maybe for the massive profit the manufacturers make..But I wonder at our
end..

I dunno.... my profit margins are up significantly, and my customers with
the new systems utility bills are 30 - 50+% less than what they were before
I installed the new system(s).

How far this foolishness will really go before someone dumps Al Gores body
in a lake of real toxic waste?

explain to me again where the down side is??

Sorry Steve, But I just am not impressed with over priced equipment that
serves less of a lifetime. The whole cooling gas Ponzi scheme is a sick
joke. Of course it gave a shot in the arm to the Industry. Folks bitch
about bank bail outs..What the Hell do you think Government rebates in our
Industry are? I am disgusted that I have no choice but to go along with
this travesty. I love new technologies..But this is an out and out
expensive scam.

yeah, and you bitched and moaned when they switches to unleaded gasoline,

Actually we burned white gas long before it was reinvented. My cattle
chasing model A used it as it was cheaper. All our small farm/Ranch
engines used white gas. The Maytag Washing machine ran on it. The Grain
elevators ran on it. It also made a good emergency fuel for the lamps
when the kerosene barrel got low.

Post by Steve
and put computers in cars so you couldn't work on it yourself anymore too.

Actually I do work on them and did have a hand in the technology that
Rockwell Research put into them in the early days. Matter of fact I have
a couple of Chrysler Body module computers that I am repairing the +-
5VDC supplies in for friends. Beyond that..I do believe we have overdone
the computer bit for Vehicles. You should take a look at the new system
in the new Kenworth and Volvo Trucks. You are aware that GM will start
making shutoff chips in all their cars? That a\ought to be fun for the
hackers.. Shut all the cars down on the Freeway system at Rush hour.

Post by Steve
Nothing is built to last anymore.

Well..I used to milk a good vehicle for 120,000 miles.. Now I can get
250,000 and more..And that has nothing to do with the computer systems.
Tires were good for 16-20,000 miles. Now they are warranted to 70,000 miles

Post by Steve
There isn't anything you can *DO* about it... kwitcherbitchin and deal with
it.

I can't..But I am watching our valiant leaders to their best to bring
the whole damned world back to the stone age. I think they have achieved
that pretty much in the middle east that was living in the Middle ages.

I am counting the days until Pheasant season, so I can go out and Kill
something. They do eat good too.

[PaxPerPoten]

Post by PaxPerPoten

Post by Steve

Post by PaxPerPoten

Post by Steve

Post by Steve

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

Doesn't make any difference if its installed correctly, and charged
correctly. The biggest difference is the new 15SEER R410a systems
that
I
install use almost literally half the energy to run than the old 10SEER
systems that I have been replacing.

Could much of that energy saving be attributed to double sized Evaporators
and much larger condenser coils? ;-p

And the compressors are smaller, the refrigerant charge is much less than
R22... somewhere around 1/2 as much. The liberal use of ECM motors
plays
a
part in it also, as do all of the built in safeties and controls.
4 ton heat pump.... 10SEER R22 scroll compressor measured amp draw is
18 -
22 amps... same system in R410a with a scroll compressor, measured amp draw
is only around 12 - 13 amps....

Given the fact that 10 SEER is less then 14 SEER. If in the middle of the
transition of the old cooling gases to the new cooling gases it had been
found there was nothing wrong with the old ///Do you really think we would
be using the new stuff?

Much higher efficiencies with the new stuff, the new stuff is *very* quiet,
10 year parts warranty, 10 year compressor warranty, and 5 year unit
replacement warranty

Maybe for the massive profit the manufacturers make..But I wonder at our
end..

I dunno.... my profit margins are up significantly, and my customers with
the new systems utility bills are 30 - 50+% less than what they were before
I installed the new system(s).

How far this foolishness will really go before someone dumps Al Gores body
in a lake of real toxic waste?

explain to me again where the down side is??

Sorry Steve, But I just am not impressed with over priced equipment that
serves less of a lifetime. The whole cooling gas Ponzi scheme is a sick
joke. Of course it gave a shot in the arm to the Industry. Folks bitch
about bank bail outs..What the Hell do you think Government rebates in our
Industry are? I am disgusted that I have no choice but to go along with
this travesty. I love new technologies..But this is an out and out
expensive scam.

yeah, and you bitched and moaned when they switches to unleaded gasoline,

Actually we burned white gas long before it was reinvented. My cattle
chasing model A used it as it was cheaper. All our small farm/Ranch
engines used white gas. The Maytag Washing machine ran on it. The Grain
elevators ran on it. It also made a good emergency fuel for the lamps
when the kerosene barrel got low.

Post by Steve
and put computers in cars so you couldn't work on it yourself anymore too.

Actually I do work on them

I forgot to mention that the software for analyzing vehicle computers
is open source and can be gotten almost anywhere on net. You can then
install in your laptop. There is an adapter connector available ..also
at several locations for the laptop to vehicle computer hookup.

www.scantool.net


and did have a hand in the technology that

Post by PaxPerPoten
Rockwell Research put into them in the early days. Matter of fact I have
a couple of Chrysler Body module computers that I am repairing the +-
5VDC supplies in for friends. Beyond that..I do believe we have overdone
the computer bit for Vehicles. You should take a look at the new system
in the new Kenworth and Volvo Trucks. You are aware that GM will start
making shutoff chips in all their cars? That a\ought to be fun for the
hackers.. Shut all the cars down on the Freeway system at Rush hour.

Post by Steve
Nothing is built to last anymore.

Well..I used to milk a good vehicle for 120,000 miles.. Now I can get
250,000 and more..And that has nothing to do with the computer systems.
Tires were good for 16-20,000 miles. Now they are warranted to 70,000 miles

Post by Steve
There isn't anything you can *DO* about it... kwitcherbitchin and deal with
it.

I can't..But I am watching our valiant leaders to their best to bring
the whole damned world back to the stone age. I think they have achieved
that pretty much in the middle east that was living in the Middle ages.
I am counting the days until Pheasant season, so I can go out and Kill
something. They do eat good too.

[PaxPerPoten]

On 7/20/2011 3:49 PM, PaxPerPoten wrote:

http://www.scantool.net/scan-tools/pc-based/

It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster

[mal]

Funny every more efficient home AC I bought in the last 20 cost me more to run, current draw is irrelevant if it takes three time as long to cool the same air.

[Stormin Mormon]

I hear you. The old piston compressors weren't all that
great. I've taken out some piston units, in my working life.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world
experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

Doesn't make any difference if its installed correctly, and
charged
correctly. The biggest difference is the new 15SEER R410a
systems that I
install use almost literally half the energy to run than the
old 10SEER
systems that I have been replacing.

[ftwhd]

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 18:00:09 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Post by Stormin Mormon
I hear you. The old piston compressors weren't all that
great. I've taken out some piston units, in my working life.

You don't hear anything because you are a fucking dumb ass. Piston
compressors can and do last for twenty years or more. No compressor
however could tolerate the hack work you do for ant length of time.

The King is dead but not forgotten.

[unknown]

Post by Steve

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

Doesn't make any difference if its installed correctly, and charged
correctly. The biggest difference is the new 15SEER R410a systems that I
install use almost literally half the energy to run than the old 10SEER
systems that I have been replacing.

I live in NC and have never had any air conditioning (~20 years). I
put in a 18,000 BTU R410A mini split system with an SEER of 17 and got
my first power bill today (system in use 35 days, billing period 32
days) and my power consumption is exactly the same as it was last year
for the month - to a kilowatt.

Uses about the same amount of total power as the two fans it replaces,
but it's a heck of a lot more comfortable.

I also got one of the Black and Decker "Whole House Power Monitors."
list price is $99 sold for $20 on Amazon - attaches to the meter on
the side of the house and reads the wheel or flashing light, nice toy
IMO. Transmits the results to the inside readout.

It shows the blower on the inside unit using under 100 watts. When
the compressor kicks in, it lollygags at ~500 watts for a few seconds
then quickly ramps up to as much as 1,600 watts for a minute or two,
then settles back at 300-600. The compressor cycles completely off -
most days more off than on.

Kitchen, living room - and some nights the bedroom too.

[.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com]

Post by unknown

Post by Steve

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

Doesn't make any difference if its installed correctly, and charged
correctly. The biggest difference is the new 15SEER R410a systems that I
install use almost literally half the energy to run than the old 10SEER
systems that I have been replacing.

I live in NC and have never had any air conditioning (~20 years). I
put in a 18,000 BTU R410A mini split system with an SEER of 17 and got
my first power bill today (system in use 35 days, billing period 32
days) and my power consumption is exactly the same as it was last year
for the month - to a kilowatt.
Uses about the same amount of total power as the two fans it replaces,
but it's a heck of a lot more comfortable.
I also got one of the Black and Decker "Whole House Power Monitors."
list price is $99 sold for $20 on Amazon - attaches to the meter on
the side of the house and reads the wheel or flashing light, nice toy
IMO. Transmits the results to the inside readout.

Nifty. Needs to get me one.

Tks.

Post by unknown
It shows the blower on the inside unit using under 100 watts. When
the compressor kicks in, it lollygags at ~500 watts for a few seconds
then quickly ramps up to as much as 1,600 watts for a minute or two,
then settles back at 300-600. The compressor cycles completely off -
most days more off than on.
Kitchen, living room - and some nights the bedroom too.

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the somnabitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

Pray for Obama : Psalms 109:8

[unknown]

Post by .***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Nifty. Needs to get me one.
Tks.

Amazon has two venders carrying it. Both have free shipping, one is
$24.99 the other $20.95.

Get on line and check the meters it is compatible with, there are
several they say it won't work with.
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-EM100B-Energy-Monitor/dp/B001ELJKLE

Meter compatibility:
Loading Image...

My meter has a little transparent pip on the inside of the meter at
the top pointing to the sky, my wife's house has one pointing front,
right hand, lower. Both work. Both electronic (no wheel)

Be a lot better if they published the model number of the meters it
works with.

Cute design - you press the reset button on the meter adapter and it
searches for a wheel and uses a retro-reflector type of IR sensor
(beams light on the wheel and looks for a change in brightness),
failing that it looks for a pulse of IR light (which is used by the
electronic meters for calibration). The sensor (and sensor arm) are
physically configurable to read either type of meter.

It reads kilowatts with 100 watt resolution. You can program it to
read in dollars and will also adapt to time of day usage and different
billing tiers (up to three) levels.

It can be "tared" - to read power in dollars or watts from the moment
you press "tare" to the moment you clear tare.

The radio link is reasonably good. There's one outside wall and two
inside walls to mine and it can loose "sync" if I move it ten feet
away but works to 40 feet (inside unit goes to sleep when it looses
sync)

That's a hassle, because of the way it works. You press "reset" on
the outside unit while the inside unit is waiting for "I.D." (so
multiple units won't cross talk or interfere on something like a multi
-family dwelling - each meter transmitter has it's own ID code).

Now that I know where it works, there's no problem, but it took some
doing, and I lost 30 KWH from the meter reading when it lost sync.

Fresh batteries do make a difference.... I may spring for something
better for the outside unit (like rechargeable lithium - if it will
work).

[The Daring Dufas]

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

No problems, we just had to get a new manifold and gauge set to handle
the higher pressures of R-410a. The new 410a systems work fine, :-)

TDD

[PaxPerPoten]

Post by The Daring Dufas

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

No problems, we just had to get a new manifold and gauge set to handle
the higher pressures of R-410a. The new 410a systems work fine, :-)
TDD

How about a recovery system? Heavier duty recovery jugs? Errrrm? Did I
ask the wrong questions. No wonder its so fucking hot? ;-p

[Steve]

Post by The Daring Dufas

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

No problems, we just had to get a new manifold and gauge set to handle
the higher pressures of R-410a. The new 410a systems work fine, :-)
TDD

How about a recovery system? Heavier duty recovery jugs? Errrrm? Did I ask
the wrong questions. No wonder its so fucking hot? ;-p

Oiless recovery machine works just fine, and recovery cans are tested to
450psi for R410a.

You need seperate recovery cans for each kind of refrigerant you deal with
anyway, so whats that got to do with the price of tea in china??

[PaxPerPoten]

Post by Steve

Post by The Daring Dufas

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

No problems, we just had to get a new manifold and gauge set to handle
the higher pressures of R-410a. The new 410a systems work fine, :-)
TDD

How about a recovery system? Heavier duty recovery jugs? Errrrm? Did I ask
the wrong questions. No wonder its so fucking hot? ;-p

Oiless recovery machine works just fine, and recovery cans are tested to
450psi for R410a.
You need seperate recovery cans for each kind of refrigerant you deal with
anyway, so whats that got to do with the price of tea in china??

The Gauging on the older Recovery systems is wrong for 410A Which means
a new recovery rig. The old Jugs were rated too low for the New gases.
So you feel carry half a dozen or more different recovery jugs is a good
deal? Why the push to make the HVAC business look like Rocket Science.?
We can train just about any normally bright kid to do the job in a
reasonable amount of time. The Votechs take 2 years and the military 3
months. You can pick up a Thermodynamic Engineering degree in 3 hard
years. Every Farm mechanic takes a whole one day course on Tractor A/C.

[Steve]

Post by Steve

Post by The Daring Dufas

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

No problems, we just had to get a new manifold and gauge set to handle
the higher pressures of R-410a. The new 410a systems work fine, :-)
TDD

How about a recovery system? Heavier duty recovery jugs? Errrrm? Did I ask
the wrong questions. No wonder its so fucking hot? ;-p

Oiless recovery machine works just fine, and recovery cans are tested to
450psi for R410a.
You need seperate recovery cans for each kind of refrigerant you deal with
anyway, so whats that got to do with the price of tea in china??

The Gauging on the older Recovery systems is wrong for 410A Which means a
new recovery rig. The old Jugs were rated too low for the New gases.
So you feel carry half a dozen or more different recovery jugs is a good
deal? Why the push to make the HVAC business look like Rocket Science.?
We can train just about any normally bright kid to do the job in a
reasonable amount of time. The Votechs take 2 years and the military 3
months. You can pick up a Thermodynamic Engineering degree in 3 hard
years. Every Farm mechanic takes a whole one day course on Tractor A/C.

I only deal with 2 gasses, so I only carry 2 recovery cans. the step up to
the new recovery machine was a no brainer. It cost 1/3 the price of the old
one, works with all the gasses, is a fraction of the size and weight of my
old machine. The maintenance on the new machine is almost nil, as compared
to my 15 year old machine that was R22 *only*
Like I said, it was a no brainer.

If your in the business, its all part of the cost of running your business.
Now.. quit your wining and suck it up.

[Stormin Mormon]

One parts house had a deal, gage set and jug of 410a. I
didn't buy it, figure I will when the need happens. That was
a year ago, still not worked with 410a.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world
experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

No problems, we just had to get a new manifold and gauge set
to handle
the higher pressures of R-410a. The new 410a systems work
fine, :-)

TDD

[Steve]

Post by Stormin Mormon
One parts house had a deal, gage set and jug of 410a. I
didn't buy it, figure I will when the need happens. That was
a year ago, still not worked with 410a.

You need to get the proper tools and learn how to charge by
subcooling/superheat long before you ever touch an R410a system.

[ftwhd]

Post by Steve

Post by Stormin Mormon
One parts house had a deal, gage set and jug of 410a. I
didn't buy it, figure I will when the need happens. That was
a year ago, still not worked with 410a.

You need to get the proper tools and learn how to charge by
subcooling/superheat long before you ever touch an R410a system.

That would require investment and training and after ten plus years of
watching his carp you should know neither is going to happen.

Im not sure who is dumber sometimes. Stormy or the people who offer
good advice which he continually ignores. Really, what's the point.

The King is dead but not forgotten.

[Stormin Mormon]

Keep adding till the suction line is beer can cold. What's
hard about that?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Post by Stormin Mormon
One parts house had a deal, gage set and jug of 410a. I
didn't buy it, figure I will when the need happens. That
was
a year ago, still not worked with 410a.

You need to get the proper tools and learn how to charge by
subcooling/superheat long before you ever touch an R410a
system.

[Steve]

Post by Stormin Mormon
Keep adding till the suction line is beer can cold. What's
hard about that?

Exactly how cold is that beer can?? .... btw, that doesn't work with TXV
systems.

[Stormin Mormon]

You know.... beer can cold.

And it works on Goodman, Comfortmaker, Coleman, Rheem, Rudd,
and TXV, and Lennox, and York, and......
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Post by Stormin Mormon
Keep adding till the suction line is beer can cold. What's
hard about that?

Exactly how cold is that beer can?? .... btw, that doesn't
work with TXV
systems.

[ftwhd]

On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:16:21 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Post by Stormin Mormon
You know.... beer can cold.
And it works on Goodman, Comfortmaker, Coleman, Rheem, Rudd,
and TXV, and Lennox, and York, and......

More proof that you cant fix stupid.

The King is dead but not forgotten.

[unknown]

Post by Steve

Post by Stormin Mormon
Keep adding till the suction line is beer can cold. What's
hard about that?

Exactly how cold is that beer can?? .... btw, that doesn't work with TXV
systems.

I may not know shit about air conditioning but I know a lotta shit
about beer (I brew my own; for over 14 years now).

Mine has to be "ice cold" suspended in ice water, with floating chunks
of the stuff. Eggsacly 32F.

Down in Puerto Rico I had a refer set just below the "triple point of
water." Open a bottle of liquid commercial beer and watch the ice
crystals form about the neck and chase down into the bottle. Perfect.

Doesn't work with homebrew - I like "body" (slime, or "mouth-feel" in
amateur brewer's speak - protein). Body equals foam and "head
retention." Set the refer at the perfect temp., and foam rolls out
of the bottle.

I make something called "Lawnmower Pilsner" for the summer. Almost no
body - indistinguishable from American Beer except it has some taste.
More like champagne; lottsa bubbles to tickle the nose, but not the
real thing.

You guys don't stay "on topic" on this group do you?

I like a cold porter or stout for breakfast - after kayaking at 4 AM
and then cleaning and feeding the animals, watering the garden,
dumping litter boxes type of chores. By 8 AM I'm wide eyed and bushy-
tailed and feeling no pain.

BEER! It's not just for breakfast.

Wine women and song.

What sick fuck invented religion?

[Stormin Mormon]

Naah, we don't stay on topic. Why not just buy the
commercial suds that passes for beer, or carbonated pond
slime, or whatever it is?

Seems like that should keep you hydrated. Me, the town I was
in for service call, got to 103F. Set a record for this
area.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Post by Steve
Exactly how cold is that beer can?? .... btw, that doesn't
work with TXV
systems.

I may not know shit about air conditioning but I know a
lotta shit
about beer (I brew my own; for over 14 years now).

Mine has to be "ice cold" suspended in ice water, with
floating chunks
of the stuff. Eggsacly 32F.

Down in Puerto Rico I had a refer set just below the "triple
point of
water." Open a bottle of liquid commercial beer and watch
the ice
crystals form about the neck and chase down into the bottle.
Perfect.

Doesn't work with homebrew - I like "body" (slime, or
"mouth-feel" in
amateur brewer's speak - protein). Body equals foam and
"head
retention." Set the refer at the perfect temp., and foam
rolls out
of the bottle.

I make something called "Lawnmower Pilsner" for the summer.
Almost no
body - indistinguishable from American Beer except it has
some taste.
More like champagne; lottsa bubbles to tickle the nose, but
not the
real thing.

You guys don't stay "on topic" on this group do you?

I like a cold porter or stout for breakfast - after kayaking
at 4 AM
and then cleaning and feeding the animals, watering the
garden,
dumping litter boxes type of chores. By 8 AM I'm wide eyed
and bushy-
tailed and feeling no pain.

BEER! It's not just for breakfast.

Wine women and song.

What sick fuck invented religion?

[PaxPerPoten]

Post by Stormin Mormon
One parts house had a deal, gage set and jug of 410a. I
didn't buy it, figure I will when the need happens. That was
a year ago, still not worked with 410a.

Its all over the place and the rebates are attracting a lot of change
outs that are still in good shape. The manufacturers are blowing smoke
up everyone's ass on how quick the new equipment pays for itself.
We are putting in a lot of ground loop etc heat pumps. The Farmers and
Ranchers have had a couple of great years and have some kind of a good
tax break. We have some farmers that trade tractors every year due to
some special tax breaks. Refrigeration units for Semi trailers and APU
units for the Semi-tractors are a big ticket repair items now too.

[Steve]

Post by Stormin Mormon
One parts house had a deal, gage set and jug of 410a. I
didn't buy it, figure I will when the need happens. That was
a year ago, still not worked with 410a.

Its all over the place and the rebates are attracting a lot of change outs
that are still in good shape. The manufacturers are blowing smoke up
everyone's ass on how quick the new equipment pays for itself.

Actually they're not "blowing smoke", its a fact.. I would be more than
happy to provide a list of my customers that I have installed new systems
for..... the average ROI for those new systems is 4 - 5 years in energy
savings alone.

We are putting in a lot of ground loop etc heat pumps. The Farmers and
Ranchers have had a couple of great years and have some kind of a good tax
break.

So your putting in systems that are $20,000 - $25,000 on the front end.....
and bitching about air source that is 1/3 the price?? they are getting that
big of a tax break?? really??

We have some farmers that trade tractors every year due to some special
tax breaks. Refrigeration units for Semi trailers and APU units for the
Semi-tractors are a big ticket repair items now too.
--
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster

[PaxPerPoten]

Post by Steve

Post by Stormin Mormon
One parts house had a deal, gage set and jug of 410a. I
didn't buy it, figure I will when the need happens. That was
a year ago, still not worked with 410a.

Its all over the place and the rebates are attracting a lot of change outs
that are still in good shape. The manufacturers are blowing smoke up
everyone's ass on how quick the new equipment pays for itself.

Actually they're not "blowing smoke", its a fact.. I would be more than
happy to provide a list of my customers that I have installed new systems
for..... the average ROI for those new systems is 4 - 5 years in energy
savings alone.

They are blowing smoke.. Do you think your the only one installing those
systems? Remember the 4 year return on the 92% furnaces back in 1988?
That was a bloody joke. And we are where a lot of fuel savings
can be had due to the long winters.

Post by Steve

We are putting in a lot of ground loop etc heat pumps. The Farmers and
Ranchers have had a couple of great years and have some kind of a good tax
break.

So your putting in systems that are $20,000 - $25,000 on the front end.....
and bitching about air source that is 1/3 the price?? they are getting that
big of a tax break?? really??

They are all getting guvmnt rebates. Kind of like when the Congress
upped import taxes on import cars to help out the noncompetitive
domestic car companies. The first thing Detroit did was to raise their
prices to vastly increase their profit margins, instead of being
competitive. I bitched...But had GM and Ford Stock. Your HVAC
manufacturers and distributors have done the same thing. I bet your
profit margin isn't as good as it was 20 years ago. And the Public is
still getting screwed on the prices. Obviously not on our end though.

Post by Steve

We have some farmers that trade tractors every year due to some special
tax breaks. Refrigeration units for Semi trailers and APU units for the
Semi-tractors are a big ticket repair items now too.

It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster

[PaxPerPoten]

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

The Druggies claim the R410A is not as good as the R22 for freebasing.
They have a tear in their eye when reminiscing about the good old days
of R12. Wasn't it Richard Prior who tried to replace it with ether and
burned the shit out of himself?

[Steve]

Post by PaxPerPoten

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

The Druggies claim the R410A is not as good as the R22 for freebasing.
They have a tear in their eye when reminiscing about the good old days of
R12. Wasn't it Richard Prior who tried to replace it with ether and burned
the shit out of himself?

I am guessing that you have first hand experience with this??

[PaxPerPoten]

Post by Steve

Post by PaxPerPoten

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

The Druggies claim the R410A is not as good as the R22 for freebasing.
They have a tear in their eye when reminiscing about the good old days of
R12. Wasn't it Richard Prior who tried to replace it with ether and burned
the shit out of himself?

I am guessing that you have first hand experience with this??

I could have, if I had been born in your generation.

[HVAC]

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?

Are you on glue?

[Grumpy]

It depend on application and type of compressors in use?
in cooling capacities can be large differences!

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

[Stormin Mormon]

You're on the wrong group, chief. We don't give useful
information, here.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Grumpy" <***@verizon.net> wrote in message news:c03mf8-***@news.paranoicy.net...
It depend on application and type of compressors in use?
in cooling capacities can be large differences!

Post by Stormin Mormon
Who has used both R-22 and R-410a. Is the world
experienced
enough to tell? Is the new stuff any good?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.